In this episode, we hear from a variety of campers—ambassadors, faculty, guides, and more—at the inaugural EPP Camping Trip, which happened in Northern California just outside of Yosemite National Park the last weekend of August 2022.
Good food, hiking, swimming, dominoes and so much more. Listen in for a peek into a weekend of community with the Enneagram Prison Project.
Hi, my name is Clay. And this is the Enneagram Prison Project podcast. In August of 2022, just a few weeks ago, a few of us from the project got together for a camping trip just outside of Yosemite National Park in Northern California. In this episode, you will hear a range of conversations from a variety of people. For example, a quick description of lunch from one of our ambassadors, Jeff Lamone, like a couple bowls of tortilla chips, and salsa after the lagoon, or anything else along those lines, you'll also hear a lot of background noise and all kinds of other fun sounds that you would expect from a camping trip with 30 or 40 people. So be prepared to rewind and re listen as needed. And hopefully, you will enjoy our attempt at capturing the magic of the 2022 camping trip with the Enneagram Prison Project. After the login, yes. Where was the login? Right down there where we were. Yeah. But I asked questions that were not because I was looking at it was a little bit of a hike down that way. Yeah, we had to go down a path, then go down a couple more pads that were steep in grade. That got even more steeper and it was made even more hazardous because of the dry hay that was planted down causing a slippage hazard. I did you benefit right off? Yeah. So Justin could attest to that. Yeah. So it was down at the very end of that. And he pointed to that, did you fear for your life? Or was it just you like gravity showed because I was very sure footed, but I could recognize that. So unless you're further than me, sorry, that's in trouble. So the camping trip went down at Don Pedro lake which is in the Grange, California, about 60 miles west of Yosemite National Park. The water level at the lake was down quite a bit by comparison to its full level, but there was still plenty of water to swim in. And the water temperature was perfect, cool enough to swim in for however long you want it from the lake. The hike up to the camping area was considerably steep and some of the campers hiked to it as Jeff described, while others drove the long way back and forth. At the top of the hill was a covered pavilion with about a dozen picnic tables. And that is where most of the campers spent their time hanging out and enjoying each other's company when not hiking, swimming or doing other activities away from the camp. There were a lot of board games campfires every night fun conversations, and also some serious ones. I noticed another Ambassador Troy Phillips talking to someone about that special day in prison when he had learned that he found out he was suitable for parole, right so at the time that I found out I was suitable for parole no they it's 120 days that you have to wait for them to complete your paperwork and all this stuff. So I go back to the sale I make it to the sale without anybody any my friends me or anybody that I know from groups or a school and I get in my cell and I go back and wash my face and I climb up on my bunk and I turn the lights out and I just breathe right I'm still shaking I still want to cry. But I just breathe I you know I my my meditation kicked in it was like okay, you need to sit down because my heart was racing on blood pressure medication, I'm overweight so I'm knowing that I'm having this emotional crush. So my Sally ends up combination comes to the door looking at what happened when I said that I fell suited. They let me go see what so after he came in and we were still under lockdown because of COVID So police came by say man, I need to take shower. So yeah, I bet you do need to take me out. I went to the shower and that's when everybody found out and one of the officers that was an old officer he's been sanquin for as long as he was working at the desk. He said attention in North Texas. Mr. Phillips has been found suitable but then I looked back at him like I used it wasn't that I didn't want everybody to know but I didn't want to be put on blast like that. absorbing it yourself. Yes. So but anyway, when I got back after I got shower, I was able to go back to the sale and just has to wait on dinner. No, it was the pandemic was there. So we were on lockdown. So it was good, but it was bad. But it was it was a good film. And I was getting ripped off for months, for months. And so all I had to tell ADP what to do let them know. As soon as I seen Susan. Yeah, but I'm trying to think how Susan, I can't remember if Susan was coming in. And I was going over to think I was going over to the chapel area. And I seen Susan coming down. She was going somewhere. But it was really restricted. And I was part of the rim because they had just started us some of letting someone's go. And I said, Suzanne, she she ran over there's almost hug right? Which can lease right? Yeah, yeah, yes. Yeah. And so you know, there's no tax now. So anyway. It's always a little bittersweet for me to hear those kinds of stories, because it still irks me to know that this man who was just found suitable for parole, suitable to get out of prison and exist with the rest of us out here in the free world. And he's not even allowed to celebrate that moment in prison with a simple hug. But that's a conversation for another day. For now. We're going to stay at the camping trip and see what else there was to experience on Friday night. Then, can you explain to me so sorry, are you so eager to interrupt people on mic? I'm not. This is the mic we're recording. This is Suzanne, an EPP guide who is also part of the faculty. She is the Minnesota chapter lead and also EPP chapter liaison. If you want to hear more about her and her work with EPP go back to episode seven from last season and give it a listen. She's one of my favorite people on the planet. And she's absolutely one of a kind. Now, with all that said, I should also mention that I love to give Susanne a hard time any chance I get because well, let's just be honest. It's fun to do that sometimes. And in this case, I'm giving her hell because she was trying to talk to us in the middle of Troy, telling his story about being found suitable for parole. Granted, you never actually hear her on his recording. And it's not really a disruption, but it's just kind of a running joke that she and I have together dating back to last year when she did it not once, not twice, but three times. And it's just hilarious to me at least every single time. I'm sorry, no, don't be in no. This is like number four. Hello, I apologize to everyone out there. And for the record, there's really nothing to apologize for. Because as you heard, it went completely unnoticed anyways. And that's just something that I think it's funny that later that night, there was a campfire, and among the traditional things like roasted marshmallows, s'mores stuff like that. We also had a couple folks making something called pizza mountain pie. You can have any kind of mountain that you want. My personal favorite is pizza, cast iron, won't be thing. Cast iron, basically a small skillet that you squeeze and you put butter bread on the inside and whatever toppings you want. This is Laura, program manager and EPP guy who you might recall from Episode 12 last season. It looks like a hot pocket. It is but it's on a campfire in Castile. homemade hot pocket. Pocket but mount is so much better than a hot pocket. So there's not it's not a pot like a ham pie. But it's not a pie. It's it's a mountain pie. Like imagine a panini press where you can take apart the panini press. And this is murky. But then you put it back together and swish it so then become sealed. And what do you put inside? All right now I'm doing an experiment of steak and cheese and peppers. Okay, because I want to see everyone we can put like pie selling he can put pizza. You can put him and she What are you about to put in and now? Steak mozzarella cheese and peppers. Sounds pretty good. Yeah. Cool. By the way, can you would you mind? Tell me your name for the recording? So I can my name is Maggie. Do you want the last name? My last name is me. And I two simple letters. Cool that people probably say wrong. A lot. Do they say now? You lead to Phil Knight only now and you're here with? I'm curious, Laura? And do you know? Are you into the Enneagram the way that she is? I am not. But I do like every hearing things. Do you know your type? I do that my type? I'm a Type Six. Oh, cool. Yeah. I have learned type B we did a little interview thing. Yeah. Have you found any place where it's like, helpful to know that you're in Type Six or is it still like an early exploration phase of just knowing what that means? There's still an early exploration phase like here Like the most that I've used it cool, awesome. Well, thanks for let me shove a mic in your face and talk about Mountain. Mountain Pine Mountain fires. Yes. Awesome. Thank you. So for anyone thinking that the camping trip might not be very enjoyable for those who are new to or even completely unaware of the Enneagram well just know that it was a safe place for everyone. After speaking with Laura and Maggie about mountain PI's, I walked by Rick Olesek and Jason white over at the grill having a chat. I think you should talk to some of the people who just got back. I did just now. Washington, I'm talking to you. I do. But most of the people here I've talked to and he's eaten, so I'm not gonna shove a mic in his face. Thank you, him. And a few minutes later, there was a subtle reminder that we were indeed camping in the midst of wild animals. What do you say, Rick? You should definitely put the food away. Because the raccoons are gonna come back to the raccoon. Raccoon ate last night. Now tell me what the record was. It was an organic, organic tubes. And I'll just tell you, your raccoon did not come back. So yeah, no grizzly bears or anything too dangerous like that. Just a hungry raccoon who got into a bag of organic chips. And also didn't think highly enough of them to come back for a second. Oh my goodness. He's just calling me out on Domino's. Can I go record this game? You can record this game. Let me go talk to the winner real quick. Okay, so for those who might not know, Domino's not the pizza chain, but the actual game of Domino's is a main staple in prison and a good way to pass the time. Yes, the game itself is fun, and people are really good at it. But the main thing that makes Domino's so fun, both to play and to spectate is the amount of trash talk that occurs while the game is played. It's usually friendly, but it's always funny I record this as well and he's about to get from from Troy and Domino's you don't believe that? Do you? He just laughed and kept walking this is how you know he he Wow Are you going to record the yes somebody's evidence? I gotta be careful because he acts like he doesn't know he's also got the best luck of anybody I've ever met in my life. I somebody telling me that he's a Stanford grad he graduated I know he went there I've never seen I've never seen the paperwork my paperwork might have gotten you know destroyed the hurricane Yeah, I've heard that story before I've been in his office a lot of times and I've never seen never seen it no frames on the wall yeah very goes I know he says it a lot but apparently people say anything are you looking for a card that's I mean is different than the one I got Oh, he's fine. He's coming up with oh hang on now a bone and not domino a ball Yeah, he just figured it out. We're all taking the inverted path. We're going up and we're going to end at the top and he's going to the Reagan's gonna be living in the hood and slab slamming dominoes down. But he just used a phrase that's only somebody playing dominoes fall right yeah, when you both he picks up he picks up pretty quick but I don't believe any of us said the word bones today. Yes, they call it boneyard Boneyard. I don't know if I told him to go to the bone you're not now Alex. Oh Alex dear. I don't know if that's where the first place he heard it but I do know that I witnessed that. There you go. Rick 10 Oh Boneyard. He's gotten paid for five but I gotta get on the ball on the door. Because as soon as the fit team man Oh, is that the way we're playing? Yeah, now you're about to find out why he waited. Already know is that 2020 2030 to 50 you don't never keep scoring. That's my next thing. Oh 13 Again, I didn't stutter 15 again. And then I didn't stutter either. Now, also, throw in one of these for good measure before you talk about it. For three pieces. I mean 15 For the people who don't speak Dominique, I gotta tell you the rest of my recording from that night, it's about an hour long and I could listen to it in its entirety over and over and over again. It's just fun to me to hear other people enjoying each other's company. And this is really only just a quick peek into the kind of weekend that we had. But before he go, I'm getting 20 Right? So that gives me 75 He's getting ready to get 25 He's gonna get 2525 for that one and the domino trips like this are important not just for fun and games, but for the good of our own mental health. EPP Ambassador Chuck Stubblefield sandwich watching this domino game over here between him and Rick wondering when you're gonna get some and get some action over here. I'm letting him get some get back Rick Scott. On the play. That's why you asked for it. That's unfortunate. I need I feel about this weekend so far. This has been this is a one gonna come had car troubles again. Sit at home work. Finances shit. Just I was at my break. So I told God I was like, No, I just want to drive the mountain right by myself. Go watch the sunrise. What's associated? Reminds back home. No talking to nobody no Falls was the guest apology car we can get you a ride. And then I had her on speakerphone. And then my wife. She popped up all of a sudden. Yeah, I told him we need to go Monterrey got vetoed. Yeah, different than zoom in it. Go on. And I promised myself I'm gonna have a sunlight so good. What time do you normally wake up on a normal workday? Six. It's not that much. It's but I'm not even talking about actual the actual sun coming. Okay, because what you see is already within right, you know what I mean? So that joined. And I felt that satisfaction I don't believe seeing that is me now. It had been lost between all the stuff that you're going to write. Of course, I do want to see. Great, that'd be cool. Here's metaphorically is what you're saying you're gonna have a sunrise every morning. I just go back to that appreciation and starting with that, and that's my last word. We're here to get sparklers going. While I was talking to chuck, there was an impromptu sparkler gratitude miniature ceremony thing to think Dustin had planned such an awesome weekend for everyone. And much as things tend to go, sometimes my chat with Chuck was a little derailed. And those thoughts will have to be shared in another conversation on another day. Meanwhile, I want to end this episode of the podcast with Dustin the man who started this whole idea in the first place. And yes, several people played a variety of roles in ensuring that our EPP camping trip went off without a hitch. But my buddy Dustin, is where the idea began. I'm Dustin Baldwin, I'm an ambassador for Enneagram Prison Project. And I like to think I'm a healthy Type Eight. But why No, I first had the idea. It was quite some time ago, it's probably like, you know, six, eight months ago, I think. Initially, my idea was, you know, hey, I want to have a camping trip, you know, with the ambassadors, right, as ambassadors just kind of getting together and then from there, you know, to a fashion I'm like, we can make this big. So, and then yeah, then the idea just kind of grew from there. And, um, timing was was key, you know, trying to try to find just trying to get a place and all that stuff. And because, you know, most, most reservation places, you have to make reservations like six months, six months to the day in order to get, you know, a campsite reservation, and then to get a group campsite reservation was even more, a little bit more difficult. So a way to tell We got like the six month mark to, you know, July or Arctic August. And then I was like those brought up is actually brought up again in conversation between Susan and Dana. Like, he is designated, do this camp, this, you know, this camping trip or not. And then Dana related to me and I was like, that's, that's my go. Like, I got to go. So I did like the same day I just jumped on. And I just started researching group campsites and where see where I could find one. And couldn't find one anywhere, or whoever was booked that had that had all the amenities, right, that the checklist of things, you know, power showers, all that good kind of stuff. And, you know, like Don Pedro popped up, and they had a large area available at all, all that stuff. And so we got it. We had jumped on and said, This is it. Let's do it. So you, was it originally something that you thought for just the ambassador's? Or was it something that you I mean, was it open to everybody from the beginning? It my first, my first thought was something small and intimate for the ambassador's, and, you know, just kind of like, you know, the people who've been around EPP kind of, like, you know, since for the past, you know, for a while, you know, like, you know, this, Susan, Rick, you know, Tara, like, all the all the people that I knew that were around from, you know, years ago, and I was like, yeah, that's, I wanted that. And then. And then I was like, Why? Why limit us to that? You know, we're, we're a growing community, there's so many great people, and so many just up and coming powerhouses, you know, in our community, and I was like, I want all of them there. I want to, I want us, I want everybody there. I mean, people are there. How many people ended up ended up being there? I didn't get an exact count. But I know, it was between 30 and 40. So because it was difficult with people coming and going, you know, from the people at the hotels and other stuff, and then, you know, then I'll be at the lake some days. And you know, so it's just kind of hit and miss. But yeah, I know, we were between 30 and 40 people. So we were there. We got there. And I say we I mean just collectively we not literally everybody, but we so Thursday night is when a lot of folks got there to set up and all that stuff. And then Sunday morning is when everybody kind of checked out for the most part Friday and Saturday. That was the bulk like of the trip. And we I mean, you're talking like from breakfast all the way to the dinner, the campfire every night. We were kind of chillin out with each other. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Was it as cool as you had hoped for it to be? Or do you wish you'd have done some things differently or planned something else or anything like that, um, it was definitely as cool as as I hoped it would be. I did for me on a personal note, I know, I did notice that I definitely fell into some, some type structure stuff to where, you know, I kind of was feeling the I had to step into like lead roles, right for some stuff. And by me doing so I kind of limited myself and my availability to connect the way I was hoping to connect. Which is not, it's not devastating. But I found great joy, being able to I was doing my due doing my thing, cooking or making sure everybody had, you know, the stuff that needed for everything to run smooth, right? And then then I'd be able to kick back and I just seen how much fun and the joy and the great conversations that every with everything around me was going on. Right? And that that definitely put a smile on my heart and my soul just like this is this is what it's about. This is perfect, right. But then at the same time, because I was doing my thing, I kind of isolated myself from being able to be involved in a lot of that, which is, you know, for me just goes to and it's not nothing that nobody did. It's it's a lot of kind of just falling into my own type, right, I'm just falling on my own type. And me having that avoidance of wanting to go there in this in the setting, you know, kind of brings back to I remember when we first went to zoom, I hated it, right? Because it was like I need in person, I need to feel that energy. There's an and I did not like zoom at all. And this was kind of the big first event to where for me, it wasn't over zoom. But I got so accustomed to zoom that now that we're in person. I was like feeling overwhelmed and most avoidance of wanting to go to that vulnerable place, you know, because now it's like all right now that really in my space. Yeah, you know, and it just kind of goes to show that you know, no matter how far along in the work I'm doing or the work that I'm in that The work doesn't stop, it's always gonna be there and you get accustomed to one thing, and then you're falling into type and, or patterns and this and that. And then when you come back into what you what you longed for, you've been away from it for so long, you're just I had avoidance of going back into there. Yeah. So I just thought that was interesting. As far as what I would do differently, because I am going to do this, you know, put it out there. Now, this is going to be an annual thing kind of decided that. So, I'm going to make this an annual event. Next year, I'm going to do this couple things a little differently, location is going to be key, of course, I don't want to be more than 3045 minutes from airport, for those who, you know, for the future people that are gonna be flying in, I don't want to be more than 3040 minutes from some decent, nice, good price hotels. I definitely want there to be redwoods maybe coast, he does, you know, little little things like that, you know, so and, you know, ultimately, I kind of want to turn this into a fundraiser as well for, for the program and for what you know, for what we're doing and to, you know, support current and future ambassadors and reentry programs. And so that's my, that's my long term goal. And I think we'll definitely find tons of support in that, you know, and I have a lot of ideas around it. So definitely, you know, I hope people stay up to date on it and kind of see what we're what we're doing here and going forward. And because I think community is going to be huge, especially for, for us current, current ambassador and former ambassador just kind of get into that community of what normal is right? In our eyes. Like we always say we're in prison, I just want to get I'll be normal, this kind of normal stuff that normal people do that is just healthy, good, fun. And you get these awesome connections and growth out of it. So it's funny that when you were talking about the difference between zoom and in person, and how you like this thing, and then you got used to that thing. And so now going back to the first thing was, was it was it was didn't feel like normal, or it wasn't easy, or however it was that, that you describe that. And I bet you more than zero people heard that and thought I wonder if that's what it's like going into prison and then getting out of prison. Because when you first go to prison, that's an adjustment period, right? And you're in you're used to how it is out here in the world. And then you go in there and it's not, it's not easy, but then you get used to that. And then going back to the world isn't super easy, because you liked how you had your spit in prison, you have your space. And it's not it's not always a pleasant wonderful, beautiful place. But you know that people there abide by a certain set of rules, and you have your space and you have a certain amount of respect, and boundaries and all these things and you get out here in the world. And people don't abide by those rules because they're not in prison. So it's I don't know if it's if it's intentional or just kind of a fun little coincidence, but the when I heard you describe that I heard the similarities between the Zoom stuff slash IRL stuff and prison and free so yeah. Is that is that any of the experience for you from the weekend? Or am I just reaching to connect things that don't need to be connected? No, I mean I definitely ties in it's kind of like you saying I'm so in prison for me like the prison especially be the dorms right? You don't have your you're always surrounded by multiple people and you get adjusted and cute and eternally right you that you said you have these boundaries you have you kind of know what to expect and and and what to absorb and not absorb from the energies and stuff. But other people's energies going on around you. When you say dorm you're talking about you're not in a cell you're in a big room with how many people did the door there's 100 People in my dorm so basically an open gym with a bunch of pucks. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So you get accustomed to that right. And then And then yeah, then I got out. I got out the right one. COVID started, of course, right. So during the first lockdown, and everything, everything was closed, which is kind of a blessing in disguise, right? Because I had no choice but to stay at home, and really get my life in order. And I couldn't go out and do any of the things I was would have done or not would have done but could have probably could have done right. Yeah, exactly. And then we went to zoom and I was like, this sucks. I have no energy to feed off of right? I have no like, I can't feel other people's energy or presidents. And then I just hated I hated zoom. I did not like it. And then at two years later, I was like, Oh, great. This is great. I can stay in my comfort little zone all by myself. And when I'm done I just got to click the little red lead button in the corner and be like, Oh, it's over. Freakin and then I and then Yeah, then I'm basically retracting. Right, I'm going back into my retracted state. And, and I'm like, I'm okay, I'm good here, I'm safe here. And then which is different, like, of course, I'm going to work and all that stuff, but that's different. You know, I mean, it's a different energy, it's a different vibe, it's a different setting. And at the same time, I've just, uh, no, I only got to be here for X amount of hours. And I get to leave, right. And then, but what I was getting to is like, so zoom is kind of like the same deal. And especially being around this caliber of people that that, you know, in this community, where we're, you know, we are practicing and, and I'm trying to live by making those connections, right? And making hitting those vulnerable places, isn't that and just being present with one another. So when I was into that space, it was intimidating, almost, it kind of brought me back to the first time I went to villain prosa, right, that didn't the narrative. I remember, I was like, I'm around, around all these people doing the same work that I'm doing. And it scared the living shit out to me. And so I noticed similarities at this camp trip for myself that I was in that place. And so what did I do to avoid it? I stayed busy. I stayed busy, and which is, which is great. I find I don't mind it. But the the fact that I could see that, and I realized that, and I know exactly what I was doing. That to me, it's showing that, hey, there's growth there, right, there's growth there, there's also chances for opportunity for me to continue to grow into that space. And that because that's my goal is to be back comfortable and productive. And, and connect, right, ultimately is connect, that's what I that's, that's what, that's what I want the most because I avoid it the most. So, man, so I just, I'm looking forward to more opportunity opportunities to be able to do things like this. And it could just pick doesn't have to be good. I mean, the camping, of course, that's going to be on the top of my list. But the other events coming up as well, I'm going to be like, if I'm able to make it even though I don't want to. But I do want to that makes sense, right? So I'm gonna, I'm gonna attend, and I'm going to be there and I'm going to take myself out of his comfort zones, and I'm gonna continue to grow into that space. We're there for the people who for the people who didn't come for the people who are listening right now. And they either wanted to go or they didn't want to go. And so they didn't go or whatever the order they wanted to go in and plans got changed or whatever. They weren't there. That's the bottom line. Tell me what is what is the first thing that comes to your mind when I asked the question, what did they miss, they miss the opportunity to see each other and experienced each other. Okay, kind of, when you don't have the, that, that gar of this screen in between us, they they miss opportunity to meet in real life in person and to just to feel that, that, that energy that that we bring in, in our natural habitat, so to speak, right. So then they really did miss a great time. And but it's but it's, but it's okay. You know, I mean, there, there's always going to be next year. And it's just such great, they they miss the community, that's what they miss, you really miss the community and to be a part of the community and feel the presence of the community. And to put, you know, flesh and blood is is not it's a whole different level of being able to just being able to see someone as they are and income as you are. And that's and that's amazing. There are people that I had that I saw there that I didn't even it didn't even dawn on me that it was my first time actually being in the same airspace with him. And I and I there literally three or four people. Oh, hey, good to see you, again, gave him a hug and all that stuff. And then I realized in the moment like wait, I've never even been in the same state with this person, like much less because I see them on Zoom, like so much. And it's it's funny how, how, over the last couple of years that we have seen each other on screen so much. And I was excited to see those folks and I didn't even realize that I had never met them before. And then of course, you know, I got made fun of a couple of times by them because they Good to see you again. They're like you've never seen me only on a screen. Do another thing. So the way something comes to mind and in the question, you know, what did they miss? As I think about like, some tiny things that, like we had Domino's like there was, there was a few people playing Domino's lots of board games, not just dominant board game Scrabble, some card games, just random games up there the pavilion that everybody was playing. And if you've if you've ever been locked up, you know that Domino's is a game that is like, you know, 20% game and 80% talking, like, non stop talking. And it was so fun. Like, like, I'm watching, you know, like Alex and control and some of the others playing Domino's, and I enjoy the talking trash aspect of it anyways, and not even trash talk. And sometimes it's just the way that like, if instead of saying, you know, give me five or give me 10 In terms of like, points that they got the phrases that they say, for the for the for the scores, that they're that they're that they're getting is just funny, but watching the people who've never been locked up, or had never been exposed to any of that stuff, like experienced that for the first time that that was, because that's one of those things you never think to tell about. Like when people say so much person like you never say, well, Dominos is a lot of fun to watch. Like it just it's so small that you don't even that you don't even think about it. And watching Rick learn how to play dominoes, and then get his head beat in. Rick is pretty good at basically every game that he plays. And so that was that was a learning experience too. And yeah, little stuff like that. I love that kind of stuff. It is. It was it was it was a lot of fun for me. Just getting why avoid dominoes. Dominoes because the 80% of the trash talking. I'm like, I can't guess I'm gonna have to just leave. I'm like, That's it. I quit you win. Why cuz that's, that's the thing is I can't do it. They do it in a way that's like fun and harmless. And they don't take it personal. I'm, I'm not like that. Get Real mean real fast. Because I'm good at talking too. By the way, shocker. Spoiler alert, I will trash talk of brick on the wall if they look at me wrong. So yeah, I know that that is something I will be watching. I didn't play a game of anything. The whole weekend. I tried to get Rick to play me at chess. I tried to get a lot of people to play chess. But But I did not. I did not have and I was there when you were challenging. I mean, Rex, like maybe later. Yeah, why usually he wins me some time. And he had all these things we try and we play too. Well, I talked a lot of trash we play I should say, yeah, that, but it's just that, that kind of experience. I've I've never really had that. I mean, I've been around EPP for a long time. And I've never, I've never been in an environment where that was happening. And that was that was so cool. And it was. It's one of those things that I think for a lot of people just kind of goes unnoticed, even though it was a big part of the weekend. But it was just like, that's my, that's my highlight of the weekend, stuff like that. And then also people you know, I brought my son, my 10 year old boy, Phoenix was there. And you know, getting to see, getting to see people with my kiddo was was fun, too. And, you know, for those who don't know, my 10 year old has autism and is not the typical 10 year old that you that you experience out there in the wild. And it was fun watching him get to know people, but also other people like figuring out how to interact with him. And do you know, like, we went swimming in the lake, and people were like, you're letting your kid like, swim? Like, yeah, he could swim. Why wouldn't it? So the whole all that experience for me, it was just freaking awesome. And you know, I don't know. So that's, so that answers that question that and so to the people who were there. Were there any people that you I'm guessing you knew everybody that was going to be there and what no surprises or anything like that for you showed up? No, that mean? I hadn't. Yeah, I had well, I had a good idea of who was going to be there. There was quite a people on the master list. That will not have quite a bit but there were a couple that were due on the RSVP list that weren't able to make it but you know, that's a but everyone's there. Yeah, I had an idea of who was there. And even some of the people were there like I was because they weren't on on Zoom. Right? Unless like I don't recognize you. Yeah, yeah. Which is also weird too. Right? It's like seeing you on a screen 100 times and then I see you in person like who the hell that new idea. Did you have Did you experience any where you have that for them? Like you didn't really know them? But they knew you like was well, yeah, there I think everyone kind of knew me. Yeah. Well, at least you know, probably that's just my no everybody If you aren't, you know me. Yeah, there's, it's, I think that also goes to how I how I just I am as a human, like, if I haven't shared personal space with you, that's kind of I feel like you're a stranger, you know, and I don't, I don't, I've just always been like that with, you know, throughout my life like unless, like, if I haven't met you in person and actually spent time with you, then then I think it's just I don't allow you into that space. So that part of me, right, I just stay kind of arm's length. So but to be able to do that, that was that was, yeah, that's just great. It's, it's amazing to do that, and to make more of those connections. So I'm just a huge thanks for everybody who was able to come. great appreciation for everybody who wanted to come and wasn't able to make it for whatever reasons, you know. And I really, really hope that next year, if you're able to come to show up, just show up and just be and see, and just see us, see US Ambassador ambassadors, and everybody else is there. And just, yeah, just come connect and have a great time. And it's kind of like, one of the things I said at the trip is the you know, it's such a great feeling to disconnect to come connect, right, because you literally in your everyday life, you know, as we're here at work, school, whatever it is you're doing, you're you're we're operating in so much personality, and not even realizing it. And you literally have to disconnect from that, to come connect into this community. And this is a great place to do it. And I really hope that, you know, if you have the opportunity next year to show on up and come, come, just come be with us be great. This trip was a good one, it was a great idea. And I'm glad that I had the chance to be a part of it. And as mentioned earlier, this was just the first of many more to come. And what I think we can all expect to be an annual EPP camping trip. I hope this was fun to listen to. I know the technical aspects of trying to record people talking out in the wild at a camping trip can be a little tricky sometimes. But I hope that you enjoyed it. It's a little bit of a shift from how some of our episodes have gotten previously. And I appreciate being able to share with you just a little peek into what it's like to be a part of the EPP family. So that's all we have for the podcast today. And by the way, now that the big summer months are behind us and we are looking forward to our fall programming and everything else that comes along with that this time of year. Please know that the podcast will go back to the monthly schedule that we promised earlier this year, with new episodes coming on the first Tuesday of every month. I promise. I know I promised before and then it didn't happen. So for me to you, my bed and the first Tuesday of every month. We'll be here. I'll be here. I hope you're here. That's all I have for now. Thanks for listening. Thanks for being part of the EPP family. And thank you for listening to the Enneagram Prison Project podcast. For more information about EPP, please visit Enneagram prison project.org We appreciate your time and attention today. Stay tuned for future episodes of the podcast which you can expect on the first Tuesday of every month as we continue to tell the story of the Enneagram Prison Project.